{"id":1604987,"date":"2022-08-14T06:33:14","date_gmt":"2022-08-14T10:33:14","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/www.conservativenewsdaily.net\/breaking-news\/?p=1604987"},"modified":"2022-08-14T06:34:06","modified_gmt":"2022-08-14T10:34:06","slug":"ray-epps-told-fbi-he-expected-a-bomb-attack-near-the-capitol-on-january-6-documents-show","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.conservativenewsdaily.net\/breaking-news\/ray-epps-told-fbi-he-expected-a-bomb-attack-near-the-capitol-on-january-6-documents-show\/","title":{"rendered":"Ray Epps Told FBI He Expected a Bomb Attack Near the Capitol on January 6, Documents Show"},"content":{"rendered":"<aside class=\"mashsb-container mashsb-main mashsb-stretched\"><div class=\"mashsb-box\"><div class=\"mashsb-count mash-medium\" style=\"&quot;\"><div class=\"counts mashsbcount\">34<\/div><span class=\"mashsb-sharetext\">SHARES<\/span><\/div><div class=\"mashsb-buttons\"><a class=\"mashicon-facebook mash-medium mash-nomargin mashsb-noshadow\" href=\"https:\/\/www.facebook.com\/sharer.php?u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.conservativenewsdaily.net%2Fbreaking-news%2Fray-epps-told-fbi-he-expected-a-bomb-attack-near-the-capitol-on-january-6-documents-show%2F\" target=\"_top\" rel=\"nofollow\"><span class=\"icon\"><\/span><span class=\"text\">Facebook<\/span><\/a><a class=\"mashicon-twitter mash-medium mash-nomargin mashsb-noshadow\" href=\"https:\/\/twitter.com\/intent\/tweet?text=&amp;url=https:\/\/www.conservativenewsdaily.net\/breaking-news\/?p=1604987&amp;via=ConservNewsDly\" target=\"_top\" rel=\"nofollow\"><span class=\"icon\"><\/span><span class=\"text\">Twitter<\/span><\/a><a class=\"mashicon-subscribe mash-medium mash-nomargin mashsb-noshadow\" href=\"#\" target=\"_top\" rel=\"nofollow\"><span class=\"icon\"><\/span><span class=\"text\">Subscribe<\/span><\/a><div class=\"onoffswitch2 mash-medium mashsb-noshadow\" style=\"display:none\"><\/div><\/div>\n            <\/div>\n                <div style=\"clear:both\"><\/div><\/aside>\n            <!-- Share buttons by mashshare.net - Version: 4.0.47--><p>Epps admitted to trespassing, directing protesters to go into the Capitol. &#8216;I wish I could take that back,&#8217; he told agents.<\/p>\n<div>\n<p>When James Ray Epps Sr. first called the FBI regarding his January 2021 activities in Washington D.C., he didn\u2019t mention how he implored protesters in several locations to go inside the Capitol, but he later told an agent that he expected a bomb would detonate on a side street near the Capitol.<\/p>\n<p>Those are just two of the revelations in a collection of Epps-related material obtained by The Epoch Times, including FBI interview summaries, FBI audio recordings, transcripts, videos, and photographs.<\/p>\n<p>In two interviews with the FBI in 2021, Epps explained his actions on Jan. 5 and Jan. 6. He admitted he was guilty of trespassing on restricted Capitol grounds and confessed to urging protesters to go to\u2014and into\u2014the Capitol on Jan. 6.<\/p>\n<p>Despite the admissions, the FBI never arrested Epps and he was not charged by the U.S. Department of Justice with any Jan. 6 crimes. The non-action has fueled a crop of theories that he might have been working for the FBI or another agency.<\/p>\n<p>Epps, 61, has <a href=\"https:\/\/www.theepochtimes.com\/exclusive-ray-epps-attorney-a-former-fbi-agent-says-his-client-is-no-fed_4208214.html\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">repeatedly denied<\/a> those suggestions through his attorney.<\/p>\n<p>Epps recently sold his house and land in Queen Creek, Ariz., because of threats and harassment and moved to Colorado, he told the New York Times in July. According to online records, the Arizona property sold for $2.2 million on April 28, 2022.<\/p>\n<p>Epps at one time was No. 16 on the FBI\u2019s Jan. 6 most-wanted page. His entry was later scrubbed from the list without explanation. He is among a handful of persons of interest to have their <a href=\"https:\/\/www.theepochtimes.com\/3-babbitt-shooting-witnesses-removed-from-fbi-most-wanted-list_4250599.html\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">photos deleted<\/a> from the FBI site.<\/p>\n<h2>\u2018Like a Terrorist Act\u2019<\/h2>\n<p>In an interview with FBI agents on March 3, 2021, Epps said he brought a first-aid kit in his backpack to Washington because he expected a terror attack.<\/p>\n<p>\u201cYeah, I thought there might be a problem. That\u2019s why I was there,\u201d Epps told an FBI agent and an FBI Joint Terrorism Task Force officer in a meeting at the Phoenix office of Epps\u2019s attorney, John Blischak.<\/p>\n<p>Blischak told The Epoch Times he would comment after reviewing the FBI interview summary, but had not done so by press time.<\/p>\n<p>\u201cI was afraid they were going to set off an explosion on one of the side streets,\u201d Epps said, according to a recording of the interview obtained by The Epoch Times. \u201cSo we tried to stay in the middle, tried to get there early, tried to stay away from the sides. And if something like that happened, I had a first-aid kit. I could help out.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Epps told the agents the possibility of violence weighed heavily on his mind and he originally did not plan to travel to Washington. It was only when learning that his son, James Epps Jr., was going to the Trump rally that the senior Epps decided to go and keep an eye on his son, he said.<\/p>\n<figure id=\"attachment_4194780\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\"><a href=\"https:\/\/img.theepochtimes.com\/assets\/uploads\/2022\/01\/05\/Epps_Poster-1200x1042.jpg\"><figcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\"><noscript><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"wp-image-4194780 size-full\" src=\"https:\/\/img.theepochtimes.com\/assets\/uploads\/2022\/01\/05\/Epps_Poster.jpg\" alt=\"Epoch Times Photo\" width=\"2040\" height=\"1772\" \/><\/noscript><\/figcaption><\/a> Ray Epps is shown at the lower left on an early FBI \u201cwanted\u201d poster. His photo has since been scrubbed from the FBI website. (FBI.gov\/Wayback Machine)<\/figure>\n<p>\u201cAs time went on, I started getting a bad feeling like something\u2019s gonna happen,\u201d said Epps, a U.S. Marine Corps veteran and former Oath Keepers leader in Arizona. \u201cThere\u2019s a lot of wackies out there. I thought something would happen in D.C. I thought there might be, what do they call them, EOD, something like that?\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Epps might have been referring to an improvised explosive device (IED), which is a homemade bomb that was a favorite weapon of insurgents in Afghanistan during the United States\u2019 long war there. In military parlance, an EOD refers to an explosive ordnance disposal specialist\u2014someone who defuses and destroys explosives.<\/p>\n<p>An agent asked for clarification: \u201cOh, you mean like a terrorist act?\u201d<\/p>\n<p>\u201cRight, like a terrorist act,\u201d Epps said.<\/p>\n<p>The agents did not press Epps on what led him to believe there would be an explosion, nor did they ask about the two alleged pipe bombs found outside the Republican and Democrat party headquarters, each just blocks from the Capitol. The RNC <a href=\"https:\/\/www.fbi.gov\/contact-us\/field-offices\/washingtondc\/news\/press-releases\/fbi-washington-field-office-releases-video-and-additional-information-regarding-the-pipe-bomb-investigation-090821\">pipe bomb<\/a> was placed near the corner of the Capitol Hill Club facing a side street, similar to the description Epps offered.<\/p>\n<p>The devices did not detonate and the FBI has not arrested anyone in those cases.<\/p>\n<p>Epps told the FBI he regretted the things he said in downtown D.C. the night of Jan. 5, 2021. He spoke to internet personality Baked Alaska and video podcaster Villain Report, both of whom recorded their exchanges.<\/p>\n<p>\u201cIn fact tomorrow, I don\u2019t even like to say it because I\u2019ll be arrested. \u2026I\u2019ll say it. We need to go into the Capitol,\u201d Epps told Baked Alaska, whose legal name is Anthime Gionet.<\/p>\n<p>Epps shouted a similar theme to the crowd at large: \u201cTomorrow, we need to go into the Capitol. Into the Capitol. Peacefully,\u201d he said. The crowd then started chanting, \u201cFed! Fed! Fed! Fed!\u201d<\/p>\n<p>The FBI agents told Epps that his statements on Jan. 5 were problematic. They said they found him often on video and in photographs from Jan. 5 and 6.<\/p>\n<p>Epps replied: \u201cI\u2019m the tallest guy in the crowd, and I stick out, man. They followed me.\u201d Then he joked, \u201cI could never be a bank robber.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>\u201cWe said that the same way,\u201d one of the agents said. \u201cWe said, \u2018It\u2019s a big guy and every photo we find, he\u2019s in it.\u2019 The night before, that video didn\u2019t help.<\/p>\n<p>\u201c\u2026And the video the night before, what you said basically predicted what happened,\u201d the agent said.<\/p>\n<p>\u201cI wish I could take that back,\u201d Epps replied. He called the statements \u201creally stupid.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>On Jan. 6, Epps was filmed near the Washington Monument imploring the crowd, \u201cWe are going to the Capitol, where our problems are. It\u2019s that direction. Please spread the word.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>When speaking to a young man in a red and black mackinaw jacket, Epps said, \u201cWhen we go in, leave this here [pointing to something]. You don\u2019t need to get shot,\u201d according to a video of the exchange.<\/p>\n<h2>First Call to FBI on Jan. 8<\/h2>\n<p>Epps first called the FBI on Jan. 8, 2021, after his brother-in-law notified Epps\u2019s wife that a photograph of Epps was on the FBI website. That call to the National Threat Operations Center (NTOC) lasted about 27 minutes, according to an audio file of the call obtained by The Epoch Times.<\/p>\n<p>In describing his activities, Epps never mentioned that he urged the crowds on Jan. 5 to go into the Capitol the next day. He said he went down to Black Lives Matter plaza to try to calm things down after people he suspected were Antifa activists were harassing police.<\/p>\n<p>\u201cI tried to calm them down,\u201d Epps told the FBI operator. \u201cI tried to let them know that, you know, that this is not what we\u2019re here for. We\u2019re here because of the Constitution, not the police. Police are on our side.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Nor did Epps mention getting on a bullhorn on Jan. 6 and encouraging people to go to the Capitol as soon as President Donald Trump was finished speaking. He would comment on those topics nearly two months later when interviewed by FBI agents.<\/p>\n<p>On the January call, Epps insisted his presence on Capitol grounds was to de-escalate when things got violent.<\/p>\n<p>\u201cI am guilty of being there and probably trespassing,\u201d he said. \u201cBut I had a reason. I was trying to calm \u2019em down. I wanted to be there, but I\u2019m trying to calm \u2019em down. Anything I can do to help. There\u2019s no call for that kind of behavior. I will be your witness.\u201d<\/p>\n<figure id=\"attachment_4194853\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\"><a href=\"https:\/\/www.conservativenewsdaily.net\/breaking-news\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/08\/Epps_on_Video-1200x635-1.jpg\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"lazy wp-image-4194853 size-large\" src=\"https:\/\/www.theepochtimes.com\/assets\/themes\/eet\/images\/white.png\" data-src=\"https:\/\/www.conservativenewsdaily.net\/breaking-news\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/08\/Epps_on_Video-1200x635-1.jpg\" alt=\"Epoch Times Photo\" width=\"640\" height=\"339\" \/><figcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\"><noscript><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"wp-image-4194853 size-large\" src=\"https:\/\/www.conservativenewsdaily.net\/breaking-news\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/08\/Epps_on_Video-1200x635-1.jpg\" alt=\"Epoch Times Photo\" width=\"640\" height=\"339\" \/><\/noscript><\/figcaption><\/a> Ray Epps at the U.S. Capitol on Jan. 6, 2021, shortly before pepper gas is shot into the crowd. \u201cBeen a long time,\u201d he said. \u201cAah, I love it!\u201d (Screen Capture\/Rumble)<\/figure>\n<p>Epps told the agents he came to Washington to express his concerns about the 2020 presidential election. He said he received five ballots at his Queen Creek address: one each for him and his wife, and three with names he did not recognize.<\/p>\n<p>\u201cWe\u2019ve owned the property for 11 years now. I\u2019ve never heard of those three people that came there. I didn\u2019t recognize the names,\u201d he said. \u201cAnd then when the election went the way it did, I was a little concerned. I mean, how many apartments are there in Arizona, 3 million? And if they\u2019re sending all these ballots to these different apartments. I mean, you know, that\u2019s a concern.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Epps said he also went to support Trump, although he did not stay at the Ellipse for all of\u00a0 Trump\u2019s speech. He said he followed crowds that left the speech early and walked toward the Capitol.<\/p>\n<p>\u201cPeople started leaving early after President Trump started speaking. So they were running and it was the same people that was, \u2018F Antifa,\u2019 and this and that and the other,\u201d Epps said.<\/p>\n<p>\u201cI believe, just my belief, they were Antifa, the ones that were saying that stuff,\u201d he said. \u201cAnd they were like running that way and I\u2019m like, \u2018Maybe I can calm this down.\u2019 So I went with them.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Epps said it was his original intention to stay for all of the speeches at the Ellipse.<\/p>\n<p>\u201cI planned on being and word was being passed around that right after he gets done speaking, we\u2019re gonna go to the Capitol. And it was a given,\u201d Epps said. \u201cSo spread the word spread the word. So I started spreading the word and I said that to a lot of people there: \u2018We\u2019re going to the Capitol right after the president speaks.&#8217;\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Perhaps the scene that drew the most attention and speculation about Epps on <a href=\"https:\/\/www.theepochtimes.com\/t-january-6\">January 6<\/a> was when he appeared at the first breach point of police lines. Some 20 minutes before Trump finished speaking at the Ellipse, an aggressive crowd gathered at a lightly defended barrier on a sidewalk not far from the Peace Monument.<\/p>\n<p>As rioters began yanking at the bicycle-rack barriers, Epps pulled Ryan Samsel back from the front line and spoke in his ear. Seconds after that exchange, Samsel and others knocked down the barrier, causing one officer to fall back and hit her head on the concrete.<\/p>\n<p>\u201cI walked up to him, and I put my arm on him and said, \u2018Hey, that\u2019s not why we\u2019re here. Don\u2019t be doing that,\u2019 you know.<\/p>\n<p>\u201cI don\u2019t know who he was. No clue,\u201d Epps said. \u201cI just tried to talk him out of doing what he was doing. And then all of a sudden, it blew up.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>When interviewed by an FBI special agent and a detective on Jan. 30, 2021, Samsel corroborated Epps\u2019s description of their brief verbal exchange, according to a transcript of the session obtained by The Epoch Times. Samsel faces nearly a dozen January 6-related charges in U.S. District Court in Washington.<\/p>\n<p>\u201cNow that guy I talked to,\u201d Samsel said, pointing to a photograph of Epps. \u201cHe came up to me and he says, \u2018Dude,\u2019 his exact words were, \u2018Relax,\u2019 he says, \u2018The cops are doing their job.\u2019 That\u2019s exactly what he says to me right there in that picture.\u201d<\/p>\n<h2>Inconsistencies in Interviews<\/h2>\n<p>Epps\u2019s two interviews with the FBI included some inconsistencies and changed details, according to the recordings and FBI summary documents.<\/p>\n<p>Epps told the FBI on Jan. 8 that his brother-in-law called him to notify him his picture was on the FBI\u2019s January 6 website. During his March 3 interview with FBI agents, Epps said, \u201cSomeone contacted me and said, \u2018Hey, your picture\u2019s up.\u2019\u201d<\/p>\n<p>When asked about his brother-in-law later in the interview, Epps said, \u201cHe didn\u2019t call me, he called my sister.\u201d Then his wife interjected, \u201cThat was me. And I can tell you exactly because he sent me a text, actually.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>When asked about who was with him on Jan. 5 and 6, Epps replied, \u201cMy son.\u201d A short while later he said, \u201cI think he had a friend there. He did have a friend there. I don\u2019t know his name.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>One of the agents said he recalled that on the Jan. 8 phone call with the FBI, Epps said he went sightseeing on Jan. 7. \u201cNo, we did that the day before,\u201d he told the agent. A few minutes later, however, this detail changed. \u201cOh, you know what? The next day we did, no, we got up that morning and we went to the Vietnam Memorial.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>In both contacts with the FBI, Epps asked if his photo could be removed from the FBI\u2019s Jan. 6 page. In the Jan. 8 call, the FBI operator said she had nothing to do with FBI web content. In the March 3 interview, he was given a more discouraging take.<\/p>\n<p>\u201cThat picture is probably still out there, will probably be there forever now,\u201d one of the agents told him.<\/p>\n<p>Epps said the notoriety of being publicly listed as a person of interest had caused problems.<\/p>\n<p>\u201cWell, we\u2019ve felt the repercussions. I mean, we\u2019ve had people come on our business site and try to destroy us,\u201d he said. \u201cI\u2019m an insurrectionist, I\u2019m a traitor. I\u2019ve been called everything in the book, but it\u2019s dying down now\u2014I hope.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>The agents asked Epps if his views had changed since Jan. 6.<\/p>\n<p>\u201cI still have concerns about the election. I do. I mean, I think everybody does,\u201d Epps said. \u201cI think our politicians, some of them need to be in jail. I think you guys need to investigate them. I don\u2019t know. How much of what we get is the truth? I don\u2019t know. Not even worth watching the news anymore. Because they just make it up as they go.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Epps met twice with the House of Representatives\u2019 Jan. 6 Select Committee, including a transcribed interview in January 2022. Committee members seemed satisfied with what Epps told them. No transcript of the session has been released.<\/p>\n<p>\u201cMr. Epps informed us that he was not employed by, working with, or acting at the direction of any law enforcement agency on January 5th or 6th or at any other time, and that he has never been an informant for the FBI or any other law enforcement agency,\u201d a spokesman said in January.<\/p>\n<p>Sen. Ted Cruz (R-Texas) grilled top FBI officials about Epps in a January hearing, but received a repeated refrain: \u201cI can\u2019t answer that.\u201d<\/p>\n<div class=\"author_wrapper\">\n<div class=\"one_author_block round\">\n<div class=\"top_row\">\n\t\t\t\t\t<a href=\"https:\/\/www.theepochtimes.com\/author-joe-hanneman\"><img decoding=\"async\" src=\"https:\/\/www.conservativenewsdaily.net\/breaking-news\/wp-content\/uploads\/2021\/12\/WEB_JoeHanneman.jpg\" alt=\"Joseph M. Hanneman\" \/><\/a><\/p>\n<p>Follow<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<p>Joseph M. Hanneman is a reporter for The Epoch Times with a focus on the Jan. 6 U.S. Capitol incursion and its aftermath; and general news in the State of Wisconsin. His work over a nearly 40-year career has appeared in Catholic World Report, the Racine Journal Times, the Wisconsin State Journal and the Chicago Tribune. Reach him at: joseph.hanneman@epochtimes.us<\/p>\n<\/p><\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Epps admitted to trespassing, directing protesters to go into the Capitol. &#8216;I wish I could take that back,&#8217; he told agents.When James Ray Epps Sr. first called the FBI regarding<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":1,"featured_media":2315279,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"_mo_disable_npp":"","fifu_image_url":"","fifu_image_alt":"","footnotes":""},"categories":[],"tags":[],"class_list":["post-1604987","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","hentry"],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.conservativenewsdaily.net\/breaking-news\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/1604987","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.conservativenewsdaily.net\/breaking-news\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.conservativenewsdaily.net\/breaking-news\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.conservativenewsdaily.net\/breaking-news\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/1"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.conservativenewsdaily.net\/breaking-news\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=1604987"}],"version-history":[{"count":0,"href":"https:\/\/www.conservativenewsdaily.net\/breaking-news\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/1604987\/revisions"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.conservativenewsdaily.net\/breaking-news\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/2315279"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.conservativenewsdaily.net\/breaking-news\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=1604987"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.conservativenewsdaily.net\/breaking-news\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=1604987"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.conservativenewsdaily.net\/breaking-news\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=1604987"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}