{"id":1491212,"date":"2022-05-25T08:16:10","date_gmt":"2022-05-25T12:16:10","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/www.conservativenewsdaily.net\/breaking-news\/?p=1491212"},"modified":"2022-05-25T08:18:31","modified_gmt":"2022-05-25T12:18:31","slug":"is-the-f-35-capable-of-a-dogfight","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.conservativenewsdaily.net\/breaking-news\/is-the-f-35-capable-of-a-dogfight\/","title":{"rendered":"Is the F-35 Capable of a Dogfight?"},"content":{"rendered":"<aside class=\"mashsb-container mashsb-main mashsb-stretched\"><div class=\"mashsb-box\"><div class=\"mashsb-count mash-medium\" style=\"float:left\"><div class=\"counts mashsbcount\">14<\/div><span class=\"mashsb-sharetext\">SHARES<\/span><\/div><div class=\"mashsb-buttons\"><a class=\"mashicon-facebook mash-medium mash-nomargin mashsb-noshadow\" href=\"https:\/\/www.facebook.com\/sharer.php?u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.conservativenewsdaily.net%2Fbreaking-news%2Fis-the-f-35-capable-of-a-dogfight%2F\" target=\"_top\" rel=\"nofollow\"><span class=\"icon\"><\/span><span class=\"text\">Facebook<\/span><\/a><a class=\"mashicon-twitter mash-medium mash-nomargin mashsb-noshadow\" href=\"https:\/\/twitter.com\/intent\/tweet?text=&amp;url=https:\/\/www.conservativenewsdaily.net\/breaking-news\/?p=1491212&amp;via=ConservNewsDly\" target=\"_top\" rel=\"nofollow\"><span class=\"icon\"><\/span><span class=\"text\">Twitter<\/span><\/a><a class=\"mashicon-subscribe mash-medium mash-nomargin mashsb-noshadow\" href=\"#\" target=\"_top\" rel=\"nofollow\"><span class=\"icon\"><\/span><span class=\"text\">Subscribe<\/span><\/a><div class=\"onoffswitch2 mash-medium mashsb-noshadow\" style=\"display:none\"><\/div><\/div>\n            <\/div>\n                <div style=\"clear:both\"><\/div><\/aside>\n            <!-- Share buttons by mashshare.net - Version: 4.0.47--><p>Back in 2015, a report emerged about a series of dogfight trials between America\u2019s newest stealth fighter, the F-35, and the nation\u2019s workhorse 4th generation platform, the F-16 Fighting Falcon, and the results were damning. The F-35, according to the report, was <em>no match<\/em> for its own predecessor, losing scrap after scrap between the two jets. But, as we\u2019ve come to find out since\u2014that report was missing some significant context\u2026 and the F-35 isn\u2019t nearly the slouch it\u2019s been made out to be. <\/p>\n<p>Today, fighter pilots frequently dismiss the importance of things like <a href=\"http:\/\/Are the days of dogfights over? An in-depth air combat analysis\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">Air Combat Maneuvering<\/a> (the technical term for dogfighting) when asked, highlighting modern sensor reach and extremely effective long-range air-to-air weapons as reasons you won\u2019t see theatrics like <em>Maverick\u2019s<\/em> in a real cockpit any time soon. But make no mistake, modern fighters have to be able to win fights in the air\u2026 and the truth is, most pilots heading into such a fight would pick the F-35 <em>every time<\/em> over the nimble, but much older, F-16. <\/p>\n<p><strong>Related: <a href=\"https:\/\/www.sandboxx.us\/blog\/are-the-days-of-dogfights-over-an-in-depth-air-combat-analysis\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">Are the days of dogfights over? An in-depth air combat analysis<\/a><\/strong><\/p>\n<h2 id=\"h-the-f-35-is-slower-and-less-maneuverable-than-many-4th-generation-fighters\">The F-35 <em>is<\/em> slower and less maneuverable than many 4th generation fighters<\/h2>\n<div class=\"wp-block-image\">\n<figure class=\"aligncenter\"> Air Force > Article Display&#8221;><figcaption>Two F-16 Fighting Falcons fly alongside and F-35 (U.S. Air Force photo)<\/figcaption><\/figure>\n<\/div>\n<p>Platforms like the F-35 lean heavily into the prevailing wisdom that dogfights are a thing of the past, prizing data fusion and low observability over hot-rod performance. In fact, the F-35B and C, specialized for service aboard amphibious assault ships and aircraft carriers, are limited to short supersonic sprints of just 60 seconds or less in order to protect the delicate <a href=\"https:\/\/www.sandboxx.us\/blog\/what-are-radar-absorbent-materials\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">radar-absorbent coating<\/a> layered over the airframes. Meanwhile, Cold War speedsters like the F-16 can creep up toward Mach 2 when flying without ordnance, and the legendary air superiority F-15 can do better than Mach 2.5 when it needs to hustle. <\/p>\n<p>This shift in approach has led many to question just how effective America\u2019s newest fighters would be in a near-peer conflict against highly capable, but older fighters. Russia\u2019s <a href=\"https:\/\/www.sandboxx.us\/blog\/is-russias-su-57-the-worst-stealth-fighter-on-the-planet\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">5th generation Su-57<\/a> may not be all that impressive, but the nation\u2019s 4th generation fighters, like the highly capable Su-35, are something to behold. Their thrust vectoring aerobatics make for a much more dynamic show than the F-35\u2019s \u201cspeak softly and carry a big stick\u201d design, but what does that <em>really mean<\/em> for air combat? <\/p>\n<p><strong>Related: <a href=\"https:\/\/www.sandboxx.us\/blog\/is-russias-su-57-the-worst-stealth-fighter-on-the-planet\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">Is Russia\u2019s Su-57 the worst stealth fighter on the planet?<\/a><\/strong><\/p>\n<h2>The details of the infamous 2015 F-35 vs F-16 report <\/h2>\n<div class=\"wp-block-image\">\n<figure class=\"aligncenter size-large\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"1126\" height=\"750\" src=\"https:\/\/www.conservativenewsdaily.net\/breaking-news\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/05\/f35-1126x750-1.jpg\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-50028\" srcset=\"https:\/\/www.conservativenewsdaily.net\/breaking-news\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/05\/f35-1126x750-1.jpg 1126w, https:\/\/www.conservativenewsdaily.net\/breaking-news\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/05\/f35-300x200-1.jpg 300w, https:\/\/www.conservativenewsdaily.net\/breaking-news\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/05\/f35-768x512-1.jpg 768w, https:\/\/www.conservativenewsdaily.net\/breaking-news\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/05\/f35.jpg 1486w\" \/><figcaption> (U.S. Air Force photo)<\/figcaption><\/figure>\n<\/div>\n<p>In 2015, David Axe over at <a href=\"https:\/\/medium.com\/war-is-boring\/test-pilot-admits-the-f-35-can-t-dogfight-cdb9d11a875\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">War is Boring<\/a> published the details of a report he obtained outlining how the F-35 got its tail kicked over and over again by the F-16. The exercises reportedly took place on January 14, 2015, over the Sea Test Range, which is a stretch of the Pacific Ocean near Edwards Air Force Base, California.<\/p>\n<p>The fight was between a modern F-16D Block 40 and an Air Force F-35A. The F-35A requires a full-length runway for take-offs and landings (unlike its STOVL and carrier-capable siblings). The F-35A is also the only one of the three Joint Strike Fighter iterations to carry an onboard 25mm GAU-22\/A four-barrel Gatling gun, making it best suited for the close-quarters dogfights these exercises were meant to replicate. <\/p>\n<blockquote class=\"wp-block-quote\">\n<p>\u201cThe evaluation focused on the overall effectiveness of the aircraft in performing various specified maneuvers in a dynamic environment,\u201d An unnamed F-35 test pilot wrote in the report. <\/p>\n<p>\u201cThis consisted of traditional Basic Fighter Maneuvers in offensive, defensive and neutral setups at altitudes ranging from 10,000 to 30,000 feet.\u201d<\/p>\n<\/blockquote>\n<p>The F-35 carried no external munitions or fuel tanks, as it wouldn\u2019t in combat in order to maintain its stealth profile, while the F-16 <em>was<\/em> carrying external tanks. In Axe\u2019s report, he identifies this as an advantage the F-35 took with it into the test, though the truth is, it\u2019s an advantage the platform would almost certainly carry with it into <em>any fight<\/em> with a 4th generation aircraft, as all fighters of that era carry their weapons externally. <\/p>\n<p>Once the fighting kicked off, the F-35 seemed to immediately struggle, proving unable to line the Viper up in its sights for notional gun runs due to its \u201csluggish\u201d performance. <\/p>\n<div class=\"wp-block-image\">\n<figure class=\"aligncenter\"><img decoding=\"async\" src=\"https:\/\/www.conservativenewsdaily.net\/breaking-news\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/05\/201122-F-TY205-1015.jpg\" alt=\"image\" \/>  Nellis Air Force Base > News&#8221;><figcaption> (U.S. Air Force photo)<\/figcaption><\/figure>\n<\/div>\n<blockquote class=\"wp-block-quote\">\n<p>\u201cEven with the limited F-16 target configuration, the F-35A remained at a distinct energy disadvantage for every engagement,\u201d the unnamed test pilot reported after the exercise. <\/p>\n<\/blockquote>\n<p>In offensive and defensive duals, the F-35 was consistently found wanting due in large part to its inability to get its nose pointed at its opponent.<\/p>\n<blockquote class=\"wp-block-quote\">\n<p>\u201cInstead of catching the bandit off-guard by rapidly pull aft to achieve lead, the nose rate was slow, allowing him to easily time his jink prior to a gun solution,\u201d the JSF pilot wrote, effectively saying the F-35\u2019s slow nose rate allowed the F-16 to remain elusive. <\/p>\n<\/blockquote>\n<div class=\"wp-block-image\">\n<figure class=\"aligncenter\"><img decoding=\"async\" src=\"https:\/\/www.conservativenewsdaily.net\/breaking-news\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/05\/110201-F-8519O-507.jpg\" alt=\"f-35 vs f-16\" \/><figcaption>F-16 Fighting Falcon (U.S. Air Force photo)<\/figcaption><\/figure>\n<\/div>\n<p>That same nose rate issue came back to haunt the F-35 when the tides were turned, allowing the F-16 to quickly gain a firing solution while the Joint Strike Fighter struggled to get itself out of the way of the Viper\u2019s cannon. <\/p>\n<p>The only way the F-35 could win a dual with the Viper, the report suggested, was by putting itself into an extreme maneuver that gave it the chance to point its nose at the opponent to deliver a missile shot, but doing so, the report explained, robbed the F-35 of airspeed, leaving it vulnerable to follow-on attack. <\/p>\n<blockquote class=\"wp-block-quote\">\n<p>\u201cThe technique required a commitment to lose energy and was a temporary opportunity prior to needing to regain energy \u2026 and ultimately end up defensive again,\u201d the pilot wrote. <\/p>\n<\/blockquote>\n<p>The report, and accompanying context from Axe, seem to suggest the F-35 is seriously inferior to older jets. But it wasn\u2019t until later that the <em>real details<\/em> about this series of exercises emerged, and it dramatically changed the way these fights should be characterized. <\/p>\n<p><strong>Related: <a href=\"https:\/\/www.sandboxx.us\/blog\/what-went-wrong-how-the-f-35-got-to-be-so-expensive\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">What went wrong? How the F-35 got to be so expensive<\/a><\/strong><\/p>\n<h2 id=\"h-people-who-hate-on-the-f-35-ate-the-report-up-but-there-was-already-evidence-that-the-test-wasn-t-all-it-s-cracked-up-to-be\">People who hate on the F-35 ate the report up\u2026 but there was already evidence that the test wasn\u2019t all it\u2019s cracked up to be<\/h2>\n<div class=\"wp-block-image\">\n<figure class=\"aligncenter\"><img decoding=\"async\" src=\"https:\/\/www.conservativenewsdaily.net\/breaking-news\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/05\/180818-F-BQ566-901-scaled.jpg\" alt=\"f-35 vs f-16\" \/><figcaption>F-35 Joint Strike Fighter (U.S. Air Force photo)<\/figcaption><\/figure>\n<\/div>\n<p>The report seemed to confirm what many already believed about Lockheed Martin\u2019s new Joint Strike Fighter, playing into the increasingly popular narrative that the <a href=\"https:\/\/www.sandboxx.us\/blog\/what-went-wrong-how-the-f-35-got-to-be-so-expensive\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">trillion-dollar (plus) F-35 program<\/a> has resulted in an unimpressive aircraft that fails to live up to expectations. <\/p>\n<p>The truth is, the report was indeed real and the F-35 <em>really did<\/em> fail to provide a worthy opponent in those very specific trials\u2026 But that doesn\u2019t mean the report and ensuing press coverage didn\u2019t seriously mislead the public about the F-35\u2019s actual capabilities, let alone how it would <em>really fare<\/em> in a fight with the nearly 50-year-old F-16. <\/p>\n<p>The first sign that something was amiss came about halfway through the original article, where Axe explains how the F-35 was able to use that specific maneuver to orient its nose as the F-16 to engage it with missiles and score its only win. It sounds like the pilot was working hard to get the aircraft to find its target\u2026 but the F-35 notably <em>doesn\u2019t need to orient its nose at a target in order to lock onto it with missiles<\/em>. <\/p>\n<p>In fact, the F-35 can famously shoot \u201coff-boresight,\u201d meaning it can target and fire at enemy aircraft even when they\u2019re flying <em>behind it<\/em>.<\/p>\n<p>So what gives? Why would an aircraft with such advanced sensor fusion capabilities that it can literally <em>let the pilot look through it<\/em> when targeting opponents practically anywhere struggle to aim its nose at an <a href=\"https:\/\/www.sandboxx.us\/blog\/dogfighting-in-an-f-16-what-it-takes-to-win\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">F-16 at all<\/a>?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Related: <a href=\"https:\/\/www.sandboxx.us\/blog\/dogfighting-in-an-f-16-what-it-takes-to-win\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">What it\u2019s really like to push 9Gs in a dogfight flying the F-16<\/a><\/strong><\/p>\n<h2 id=\"h-the-f-16-was-squaring-off-against-an-f-35-with-both-wings-digitally-tied-behind-its-back\">The F-16 was squaring off against an F-35 with both wings digitally tied behind its back<\/h2>\n<div class=\"wp-block-image\">\n<figure class=\"aligncenter\"><img decoding=\"async\" src=\"https:\/\/www.conservativenewsdaily.net\/breaking-news\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/05\/180714-F-QP401-960.jpg\" alt=\"f-35 vs f-16\" \/><figcaption>F-35 Joint Strike Fighter (U.S. Air Force photo)<\/figcaption><\/figure>\n<\/div>\n<p>The report\u2019s damning representation of the F-35 wasn\u2019t based on the jet\u2019s actual capabilities at all, as it would turn out. <\/p>\n<p>The F-35 airframe used in the exercise, <em>AF-2<\/em>, was among the earliest F-35s delivered to the Air Force\u2014and it carried software limitations specifically intended to prevent the pilot from pushing the jet anywhere near its structural limits. The F-16D it was flying against, of course, had no such restrictions. But that\u2019s not all. <\/p>\n<p>In a subsequent piece penned by Kris Osborn for the <a href=\"https:\/\/nationalinterest.org\/blog\/buzz\/remember-f-16-killed-f-35-report-years-ago-it-was-wrong-192996\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">National Interest<\/a>, the reasons for the F-35\u2019s poor dogfighting performance began to take shape. <\/p>\n<blockquote class=\"wp-block-quote\">\n<p>\u201cThe F-35 involved was AF-2, which is an F-35 designed for flight sciences testing, or flying qualities, of the aircraft. It is not equipped with a number of items that make today\u2019s production F-35s 5th Generation fighters,\u201d F-35 JPO office said in a written statement.<\/p>\n<\/blockquote>\n<div class=\"wp-block-image\">\n<figure class=\"aligncenter\"><img decoding=\"async\" src=\"https:\/\/www.conservativenewsdaily.net\/breaking-news\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/05\/140611-F-TW412-001.jpg\" alt=\"f-35 vs f-16\" \/><figcaption>F-35 Airframe AF-2 (shown) was only the <em>second<\/em> F-35 ever delivered to the U.S. Air Force (U.S. Air Force photo)<\/figcaption><\/figure>\n<\/div>\n<p>So why wasn\u2019t the F-35 able to aim and fire notional missiles at its F-16 opponent without pointing the nose of the fight <em>directly<\/em> at it? The answer is simple\u2014the F-35 that participated in these drills didn\u2019t have all of the systems it needed to leverage its own capabilities. <\/p>\n<blockquote class=\"wp-block-quote\">\n<p>The AF-2 was \u201cnot equipped with the weapons or software that allow the F-35 pilot to turn, aim a weapon with the helmet, and fire at an enemy without having to point the airplane at its target.\u201d<\/p>\n<\/blockquote>\n<p>The AF-2 F-35 used in these dogfights also lacked the radar-absorbent coating that\u2019s essential for the stealth profile of these jets. In fact, current radar-absorbing materials (RAM) <a href=\"https:\/\/www.sandboxx.us\/blog\/what-are-radar-absorbent-materials\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">are rated to absorb<\/a> upwards of 70-80% of inbound electromagnetic energy (of radar waves), making it much more difficult for the F-16 to track the F-35 on radar. <\/p>\n<p>In other words, the F-35 that fought in these exercises was flying to only a percentage of its full capabilities in terms of aerobatics, targeting, and situational awareness. <\/p>\n<p><strong>Related: <a href=\"https:\/\/www.sandboxx.us\/blog\/an-f-35-pilot-explains-why-the-jets-bad-press-misses-the-point\/\">An F-35 pilot explains why the jet\u2019s bad press misses the point<\/a><\/strong><\/p>\n<h2 id=\"h-so-who-would-really-win-a-fight-between-the-f-16-and-f-35-in-combat-today\">So, who would really win a fight between the F-16 and F-35 in combat today?<\/h2>\n<div class=\"wp-block-image\">\n<figure class=\"aligncenter\"><img decoding=\"async\" src=\"https:\/\/www.conservativenewsdaily.net\/breaking-news\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/05\/160825-F-XX999-003.jpg\" alt=\"f-35 vs f-16\" \/><figcaption>F-35 fire AIM-120 AMRAAM  in testing (U.S. Air Force photo)<\/figcaption><\/figure>\n<\/div>\n<p>If an F-35 and an F-16 found themselves on opposing sides of a conflict and suddenly within visual range of one another, the tight-turning Viper might have a chance at scoring a kill on the F-35, but that\u2019s not the same thing as saying the F-16 is better. In combat, anything can happen, and things like pilot error or something as simple as position on approach can give less advanced jets an advantage they can press\u2026 <\/p>\n<p>But in <em>actual<\/em> combat conditions, it\u2019s far more likely that the F-35 would down any F-16 on the playing field before the Viper pilot <em>even knew it was there<\/em>. It\u2019s hard to win at air combat when your parachute is open before you even realize the fight\u2019s on. <\/p>\n<h2>Read more from Sandboxx News<\/h2>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Back in 2015, a report emerged about a series of dogfight trials between America\u2019s newest stealth fighter, the F-35, and the nation\u2019s workhorse 4th generation platform, the F-16 Fighting Falcon,<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":489,"featured_media":1491304,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"_mo_disable_npp":"","fifu_image_url":"","fifu_image_alt":"","footnotes":""},"categories":[],"tags":[],"class_list":["post-1491212","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","hentry"],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.conservativenewsdaily.net\/breaking-news\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/1491212","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.conservativenewsdaily.net\/breaking-news\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.conservativenewsdaily.net\/breaking-news\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.conservativenewsdaily.net\/breaking-news\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/489"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.conservativenewsdaily.net\/breaking-news\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=1491212"}],"version-history":[{"count":0,"href":"https:\/\/www.conservativenewsdaily.net\/breaking-news\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/1491212\/revisions"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.conservativenewsdaily.net\/breaking-news\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/1491304"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.conservativenewsdaily.net\/breaking-news\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=1491212"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.conservativenewsdaily.net\/breaking-news\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=1491212"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.conservativenewsdaily.net\/breaking-news\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=1491212"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}